Zia Anger interview: On ‘My First Film’, autofiction and working with Odessa Young

Zia Anger is not one to abandon a project, no matter how doomed it seems. Take Always All Ways, Anne Marie, her first feature film, which starred a young Angel Olsen and was rejected by nearly every film festival it was submitted to. For most filmmakers, a rejection of the sort would likely signal the end of the road. But for Anger, it was the beginning of a decade-long excavation of her failures — and the creation of something entirely new.

In MUBI’s latest offering My First Film, Anger fanned the flames of a live performance that transformed her failure into art from the fading embers of Always All Ways. Originally staged at the Spectacle Theater in Brooklyn, the performance was as unorthodox as it was revealing. Using TextEdit to type out her thoughts in real-time, Anger narrated her journey through rejected projects, unearthing her anxieties about filmmaking, its setbacks, and the messy intersection of life and art. The performance toured North America and eventually made its way online during the pandemic, evolving into a form of cinematic catharsis for Anger and her audience alike.

Now, Anger has taken this raw material and molded it into a new project — a narrative film that builds on the performance’s themes while playing with autofiction. My First Film stars Odessa Young as a thinly veiled version of Anger herself, blending essayistic reflections with moments of cinematic realism. The film deconstructs not just her early work, but the very idea of what it means to succeed as an artist. It’s a deeply personal story of rebirth, one that reveals the artist’s uncanny ability to turn defeat into a creative act of defiance.

In our conversation, Anger opens up about the complexities of autofiction, the anxieties of building upwards from failure, and how turning creative setbacks into performance art reshaped her filmmaking process.

Excerpts:

The film and your live performances have been described as autofiction. How would you differentiate adapting the story of your life from a traditional autobiography?

Zia: One of the main threads in My First Film is the search for truth, especially the truth within how to tell one’s own story. I was really interested in just moving towards something that felt truthful and honest to myself and my personal experience. As I went through different iterations of the film and the performances, I realized that reality didn’t always feel as honest as what I remembered. So, I aimed to work toward a version of truth on my own terms. That meant eschewing conventional autobiography and letting other elements of my life — like performance, mime, and unconventional storytelling — filter in. Reality or documentary just didn’t feel like the right medium for what I felt inside.

Can you tell me how Odessa Young got involved in the film? Did you both develop a relationship where you became each other’s muses?

Zia: She’s incredibly talented and unique in a world full of great young actors. She can completely shed who she is for the camera — she’s like a shapeshifter. What really stood out to me was her ability to get “ugly” or unlikable, which was something I wanted for the character. When I saw her in Shirley by Josephine Decker, I knew she had the range to be both disgusting and likable at the same time.

I was lucky she already knew my work and wanted to read the script and meet with me. In our first meeting, we realised we had a lot in common when it came to making films. We both wanted to create something exciting, full of emotion, and with people we loved working with. There was even this funny moment where I noticed we were both sitting in the same slouched, hunched posture. That physical similarity felt like a sign that she was the right choice.

She put in so much work and preparation, asking me every question she had about the film and myself. On set, she was a dream, really.

Odessa Young in a still from ‘My First Film’ | Photo Credit: MUBI

Throughout the film, it feels like there were several attempts to hijack your creative vision. Do you think things have improved for aspiring female filmmakers in the last 15 years?

Zia: Honestly, making films now is probably harder than ever for all filmmakers. There’s always a hierarchical system at play, with directors and producers at the top. That can create complications over who controls what. For me, it was important not to ignore that hierarchy but to find other ways for people to have control over the creative process.

I’ve mostly worked on my own films recently, so I can’t speak for other sets. But I think power dynamics are always present in filmmaking. The key is to try and break down those hierarchies and create a more collaborative environment.

Do you think Hollywood has moved beyond narratives that focus solely on the pain of being a woman?

Zia: Probably not. If it makes money, it’s going to stick around. People are fascinated by pain, and that’s not limited to women. So, I doubt we’ve moved beyond it. But I’m hopeful that we can shift away from pain as the central focus, even though it’s a big part of the world.

You’ve used filmmaking as a metaphor for pregnancy and birth. How much truth is there to the story about your conception involving a 35mm film canister?

Zia: As far as my dad tells it, it’s 100% true. But if you’ve seen the scenes with my dad, you know he’s not too concerned with reality. So, who knows? It could be real, or it could be fiction. At this point, I’m not sure it matters.

A still from ‘My First Film’ | Photo Credit: MUBI

One of my favourite lines from the film is from your dad when he says, “When did being good ever stop you?” Do you still find the anxieties from your first filmmaking experience creeping into your new projects?

Zia: Absolutely. The thing I didn’t have 15 years ago was self-awareness. It’s great to be young and naive, but not at the expense of others. The biggest lesson I learned from my first film was to be constantly self-aware and present in the process.

Sometimes that means reflecting on something I did yesterday, or 15 years ago. Time doesn’t always move forward; it jumps around, allowing me to see things from different angles. That’s just part of my process now — being open to it, hating certain versions of myself, then learning to love them again.

You started with just over four grand for ‘Always, All Ways’. When the budget increased slightly for your first feature, did it feel liberating, or did it make you dwell more on what ‘Always, All Ways’ could have been?

Zia: When you get money, you use it. I was unapologetically excited about having more resources. I’d never had the chance to properly pay people or work in a more controlled environment. I didn’t look back with regret; I focused on what we could do with the resources we had and how I could improve on my past work.

Do you think micro-budget filmmaking has reshaped the cinematic landscape?

Zia: Absolutely, but not always in progressive ways. Micro-budget films have allowed for new stories and voices, but many still follow traditional cinematic conventions—a protagonist with an arc, a neat ending. So, in some ways, it’s a repackaging of the same traditions. But it’s always exciting when people who wouldn’t normally get the chance to make a film can do so and bring fresh perspectives. Cinema is still young — less than 150 years old — so hopefully, we can move beyond these conventions before AI takes over.

Okay, two rapid questions. First, Jeremy Strong’s Kendall Roy heavily features on your X feed. Did Kendall’s constant struggle for success, only to have it snatched away on the precipice of victory, resonate with you?

Zia: Absolutely. I think Jeremy Strong is one of the best actors today. Characters like Kendall Roy, Tony Soprano, and Michaela Coel’s character in I May Destroy You — I thought they fall into the same really despicable category of people that you can’t help but love. They’re incredible, and Kendall’s story definitely struck a chord with me.

And given the state of contemporary America, do you think it’s easier for women to get an abortion or make their first film?

Zia: Oh, God. Probably neither. It’s harder now for both than it was 15 years ago, which is really unfortunate.

My First Film is currently available to stream on MUBI

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